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Was this a very difficult struggle? I mean, the appropriations battles?

It was always to me very difficult and terribly painful to see how frivolously it's handled. But Magnuson [Senator Warren G. Magnuson] and Ed Brooke [Senator Edward Brooke] were marvelous on the Senate side, because they beat them down, you know, and they handled it well. They're extremely skilled.

You mean, they in the opposition?

Yes. You see, the House is always, always at least twenty percent, the funds across the boards they always vote twenty percent less than the Senate, but in the Senate, the Senate voted less for Eye, because the House had voted more. So they traded with the House on the Eye.

Jane has another point on her list that perhaps you'd comment on --

The meetings of the National Cancer Advisory Board, that the board is a large board with people -- of eighteen, with a great -- at least a hundred staff members sitting around listening, and most of the business has been decided before the matters that are taken up with the board gets to the board, and little creative effort can bestarted in the board at the time of the meeting. You have to do whatever you want to do by talking to people beforehand.

It's almost like a rubber stamp then?

Yes. Only that sometimes you can get something formally