Part: 12         Session: 145678910111213141516171819202122         Page 599600601602603604605606607608609610611612613614615616617618619620621622623624625626627628629630631632633634635636637638639640641642643644645646647648649650651652653654655656657658659660661662663 of 999

And I wanted very much to have a chance to talk to him, and that's why I was willing to do -- to be a co-chairman, because I thought it would be a chance for me to perhaps make an opportunity to see him alone about health things, but I was frustrated.

You were circumvented?

With Califano, Califano immediately called up, and the last time I saw him, he said, when you were visiting and I was calling him up to tell him he shouldn't put any more money in the bill for health or medical research, you were visiting him and I was told that I couldn't speak to him because you were there. (LAUGHTER) So I haven't broken any sound barrier with either of them.

Any real contact with her? With Mrs. Carter? Have you had any contact --?

She asked me for lunch when I was in California, and I really would have had to come back for lunch five hours, and five hours back and the time change, and I just thought it was more than I could do.

I know you did that once a couple years ago.

But it was terribly exhausting, I find. And I hope I will see her, because --

Was it a special kind of luncheon she asked you for?

She was having a luncheon for Mrs. Waldheim, the wife of