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because it saved money in the end, and it was ridiculous to try to save money from research appropriations.

This made me very happy. Also, Senator Schweiker we saw and all the Republicans were very supportive.

The difficulties were with Proxmire, who wanted in the subcommittee to reduce everything by 150 million. And by the fact that Magnuson --

Who was going to --?

Proxmire. And Magnuson had the proxies of enough people so as to defeat any of Schweiker's effort to add 147 million. Schweiker lost 9 to 8.

Now, you said you went around to see --

and it was really astonishing, to see how strong the -- how intelligent the Republican side was, and how dumb Chiles is. Burdick is always in Magnuson's pocket, Chiles is nothing, always against everything.

Florida Chiles?

Yes, Florida Chiles. Eagleton is only for a little bit of money, tiny bit of money for aging. And the only strong person we had was really Birch Bayh.