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is. . . I think I'll report this in a special session with you, the meeting with Secretary Gardner, on whether or not the council of the National Institutes of health should be required to review and approve contracts as well as grants. This is a special thing that I think has quite a little significance, but it's a special story, and I think I'll do that next time. It can then be put into this general area, but it'll take quite a little time to do.

When was that held?

It was held this last spring. Gardner appointed a committee called the Ruina Committee, and I think they have “Ruina-ed” something very important for the Public Health Service and for people generally. It's some thing that I think I should talk about, so I've got it on the record, and it will be of interest to you too, because you're an expert really on federal maneuver and the mischances that go on.

Splendid -- I've made a note of that.

The other thing I wanted to , as a result of my desperation about getting more action to lower the death rate and the disability rates, first six years of the'60's have not shown much difference in the death rate, because there have been no major discoveries in the areas related to major causes of death. The major discoveries -- there have been very few major