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saying that they expect to have the material for clinical trials within the year, so we'll see what happens.

Yes. It's a great prospect.

Now in California we visited Cetus, Genentech, the City of Hope and Cal Tech. We visited a man called Dr. Hunkapillar, who found a way of quickly sequencing interferon, sequencing the gene, finding exactly what amino acids need to be put next to each other to make a sequence. But I think that the truth is that Pestka at Hoffmann-LaRoche already knew.

Pestka and Burns.

Pestka and Burns. So they have an edge, but nobody knows . . .

At the time of cortisone, there were various kinds of cortisone and only one kind was really active, so that it's very tricky to know just exactly who in the end is going to come out as great suppliers. These people may always be in it, but somebody else may discover something.

Also it's been cloned in Japan in this fiscal year.

You said last time that the Japanese were working in the field, and you said that if some big drug company there got hold of it it would go.