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It is, it is, but you see she knows so little about it she would take it for granted that if this is the case then a lot has been done already, or that there is nothing more we can do necessarily. She is a very bright woman, but nobody is bright in every area or in every subject, and she's come from Urban Affairs, she is a lawyer and she knows all kinds of other things, but to be interested in how you get people moving and save lives. . .

In Blue Cross for instance we've just gotten 3,000 people trained to go out and urge people in industry to have high blood pressure clinics in their businesses.

Who trained them?

They were trained with a grant from the National Heart Institute. We got a training grant of $180,000. They had six weeks' training. I suppose they didn't spend all day at doing anything, but. . .

Are the NIH people really impressed with this?

I would say the Heart Institute is rather impressed with it, but the NIH people don't know anything about it. Frederickson isn't impressed particularly. Dr. Tower of Neurology and Communicative Diseases and Stroke Institute is not impressed, because he thinks this is not the solution to strokes. Well, of course it's not the solution to all strokes. Some strokes are due purely to arteriosclerosis,