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for funds...we sought a request for funds from Dr. Ruddle at Yale, who said that he thought that they could make monoclonal antibodies that would fit into the antigens of tumor cells so that it could be shown which type of interferon gets which type of tumor. Now, if this can be done, the whole process will be tremendously shortened, and it's their opinion that they can do it. I'll tell you next year or the year after whether or not they've done it. If it's doable, it would simplify treatment not only with interferon but with drugs, other chemotherapy...

Where do his funds come from?

Well, he is also of course supported by the Cancer Institute and the American Cancer Society. The funds that the Lasker Foundation gave Ruddle came from a group of people who wanted to be treated with interferon. Gutterman got it for them, so they gave money to the Lasker Foundation's Interferon Fund and the National Cancer Institute.

We're making a contract with him to specifically do this in relation to interferon; and, you know, they never have enough money to do anything fast. You know, they all work with a sort of a measured tread, because these are the two big sources of funds. That's what the universities are living off.

Yes.

And for a long time the universities weren't really helping us to get these funds for the NCI. Finally it came over them that this is what they were eating by, and they are no sometimes