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more enthusiastic. They bitterly attacked the university organization -- medical school organization --, attacked it bitterly for the Cancer Act of '71. But they found out that with the billion dollars they were getting anything from $250 to $300...maybe more. . . million just for overhead in the universities' medical schools. So it came over them that it might be well to be friendly with me and to go along with this. (laughs) It took a long time, however, (laughs) Isn't that bizarre?

Somewhere along the lines you should have gotten a degree in medicine, and then you would have been accepted immediately.

Oh, but then I would never have the nerve to do what I do. I have no inhibition. I would be friendly with all these people, and I would then be part of their club. As it is, I'm just an outside catalytic agent that does whatever occurs to me, and they resist or accept it. I would have been worn-out by learning the trade, (laughs) and would never have had the energy to do anything.

(laughs) That's a cute explanation.

So we have hopes that interferon treatment will be made through these devices more precise and that the stitching together of specific clones will make even more potent kinds of interferon.

Now, we still haven't got cloned immune interferon, but Dr. Vilcek at New York University has got some pure interferon, and