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how we got the act passed. It turned out. I had great hopes that he would, especially with Hammer as chairman of the panel. . .

And how long has he been chairman?

Oh, about six months . . . That he would put some push into it and push into the efforts generally. He can understand the need of something much more easily than most doctors do -- you know, whether people need money and whether they need pushing and whether thev're being just arbitrary, you know.

Well, he's a businessman.

He's a businessman. He understands.

He sees these aspects of it.

I'm very very encouraged by his interest.

Good. Well, do you recall some of the things that were discussed at this meeting? How large a group was this?

Well, there were only about ten people -- about ten people on the panel. But the meeting took place at the University of California in Los Angeles. And people from their cancer research group were present at the meeting with me and a lot of other people