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You need a lot of follow-up on it and you need a lot of determination, and I wish there were more people interested, because it seems to me the lines are very simple and in the public interest, don't you think so?

I do indeed, I quite agree with you. Are there any other foundations which could be induced to follow in this?

Well, you see, most people in foundations don't take the bother to know enough about medicine to know whether the things are for being publicized or not. They haven't -- the people who are public information minded don't have any medical background, and the doctors as a whole are so terribly reactionary that -- you know, nobody moves forward. You see, most laymen are scared of medicine and don't follow it carefully “Oh, if that happens to me I'll go to a doctor.” Well, a lot of doctors are very afraid of anything new. So it takes -- II just don't know people, lay people, who have an interest in medicine. I know some who are interested in one aspect of medicine. For instance, Jules is interested in eye disease research, but he isn't interested in other types of research.

Well, another effort that I made was that Mr. John Rockefeller and the Populations Council has been trying to interest the President in appointing a Presidential