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was very friendly.

That brings me to a question, and I think this is the proper place -- some estimate now of Secretary Finch. You talked about him last year but you didn't know him really.

I think that Finch is a very able politician and an able man. Unless he's going to be able to take leadership in education and in pressing for research, conquests in the major diseases, I think he isn't going to be considered very important. Unless Finch's line changes, or unless he's able to have more influence on the budget and on President Nixon, or unless Nixon is sufficiently interested in the problems of the department and orders the budget to give more funds. I don't know what his relationship with Nixon currently is. I always have the feeling that he would really be happier to be running for the Senate.

Yet there was a report the other day that even though Senator Murphy drops out --

Is Murphy going to drop out?

Well, there was some conjecture to that effect, that perhaps ill health would force it, even so they did not think that Finch currently would want to run; that he would prefer to stay where he is.

Well, I don't know, but it was my feeling when I last