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Arteriosclerosis is not at present treatable in any way except -- you can't be sure that you're doing anything to it except by surgery, and this is not a very ideal way to treat the human body. We've hoped for something that will act like a detergent and sort of wash arteriosclerosis out of the body, and we hope for --

Isn't there something that gives promise in that area?

Well, there's a drug that seems to prevent the further deposition of arteriosclerosis, or at least keeps the cholesterol and triglycerides lowered, and certainly in Dr. Krasno's studies, which he's presumably going to publish in a few months, he shows that they prevent the -- they prevent 80 percent of first heart attacks of people who are on no drups as compared with the controls. But there's no way to eliminate arteriosclerosis in someone who already has it, who's already in heart failure, who already has a thromobosis or aneurism. The only way to treat that is either surgery or anti-coagulants and aneurisms aren't helped by anti-coagulants. They have to be operated on. And if you have an aneurism in your aorta, it's quite a big operation.

Well, now in connection with national health insurance, which I think I've probably talked about --

-- you talked about it. You talked about the meeting at the dinner with Walter Rather and others, Finch and so forth.

Yes. WELL, of course, such terrible things have happened since