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have said to me that they think that that is just exactly what was happening. Whether Reston ever made this indication publicly or directly to Rosenthal or to Punch Sulzberger, I simply do not know; but I know that he agreed with me once in a discussion of this.

I only mention that in passing to show that I was not the only person who felt that this was a tendency in the Times.

Now, to get back to the conference, the whole thing was very destructive, was very bad. I was against this kind of public discussion. And remember, I'm talking about public only in the sense of public among New York Times people. I was very much against it. But it was done, as I say, not only with the approval, but with the encouragement, in fact more or less the initiative of the publishers, and we were all urged to be absolutely candid.

Why do you think he approved of this?

Well, I think it was an effort to kind of make the Times executives operate more openly, or he was persuaded by Chris Argyris, the professor, who is now I think professor at Harvard, at that time at Yale - if there is such a subject as business sociology, that's what his specialty is - I think that he was persuaded, this would be a healthy thing. What is called “the establishment of franker interpersonal relationships,” to use the lingo.

Well, I -

Sounds like sort of a group therapy session.