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I suppose so, but I think that's a very far-fetched statement, no matter how closed and - in Argyris' sense - we were closed, and he found that we were a closed society because we didn't interrelate with each other. And I guess, from what I just said a moment ago about my basic relationship with Abe Rosenthal, I guess if that's an illustration of the kind of thing that he was talking about, I don't myself see that that has very much to do with the free press question. I can't see why he should raise that point.

Exactly. Well, that I guess is what reminded me of what you said earlier, that he's certainly a highly personable fellow, he must have been, because that to me is an absolutely inflammatory statement, an outrageous one.

You mean Argyris?

Yes.

Personable, sure. I got along with him well. But I felt from the very beginning, and I think I've already said this, I felt from the very beginning that this whole operation was a mistake. Of course, that view plays right into his position that we were closed, we didn't want to relate to each other, and so forth. In any case, I felt that this was an effort, an institutional psychoanalysis which could not really be particularly useful or productive, and I was against it. And of course, I also had no idea that - while I had an idea that the end result was going to be a book, I had no idea that conversations were going to be used to the extent that they were, these taped conversations. We knew that they were being taped, by the way, but I had no idea that they were going to be used in the way that they were in the