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It was a fairly dramatic departure from anything in the history not only of the Times
but of almost any newspaper I've ever heard of.
That's right. But I think, on Punch's behalf, I think that he did see that the
relationships within the paper were not good, and he felt that maybe this would be one way
- he was sold the idea that this might be one way to do something about it. I just think it
was the wrong way. But I think that that was a perfectly good motivation of Punch, in
planning to do -
Yes, well, I think this comes out in the book itself, of course, his motivation. But you
don't have any personal knowledge of how he fell in with this particular -
Of how it was actually brought to his attention? No, I really don't. I don't recall
how. I really don't know how that happened, who brought Argyris to Punch's attention, or
perhaps he initiated it himself.
I'm rather astonished that it didn't cause more of a stir - this book?
The book, it's surprising that it didn't.
Yes, it's full of dynamite.
As far as I'm concerned, nothing that I said in there would I retract a word of. I feel
no compunction about it. But I felt, from the New York Times' point of view, it was very bad
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