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Of change. Well, it sure did change, there's no question of that. That's right.

Maybe it's a change for the worse, but -

And I think it's a -

- he might say, “Well, this is the documentation of that.”

And in everything I've said, I suppose, I'm showing myself as somebody who didn't want a change.

Well, I didn't want a change in the direction in which we're changing. I would have been overjoyed if we'd changed in the direction, as I said, of making ourselves stronger in the areas in which I feel we had a unique position.

But in any case, that's past history. We didn't do that, and we certainly have changed, and if that makes me a reactionary - I'll have to stand on that. Yes.

Well, that's a pretty good place to -

I do have to say, however, that I don't think I'm a reactionary, and I am responsible myself, more than anybody else, for what is one of the major innovations of the Times in recent years - although it's within the parameters that I myself have just been describing