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No. It was in response to what I thought was a quite mild comment about editorializing, some editorializing that had gone on in the news columns. This was later than this period.

And of course, I used to hear that Abe couldn't really - he, I think, felt rather strongly that I was running the kind of editorial page that he disapproved of. I guess Vietnam may have had a little to do with it. Maybe. Because he was of course very much of a hawk, as were practically all the Times news department people. I was known as very much of a non- hawk, dove if one has to call it that, and that didn't help.

As far as I was concerned, it didn't make any personal difference, but I gather, Rosenthal I think translated this in somewhat personal terms, too, I think. That probably had something to do with it.

And then, my views on the relative rights of - the contest between First and Sixth Amendments. I had views that we expressed, occasionally, on the editorial page, that newspapermen were not always necessarily one hundred percent right in their conflicts with the courts, with the law, with the Constitution. I've said this, incidentally, publicly many times in speeches and so forth. But we're now talking, because you asked me about this period, a - and I guess maybe this is one of the things that Rosenthal held against me, and that came through in personal relationships. And of course I have to respond when someone is as unpleasant as he was on some of these matters.