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This is December the third. I'm Mary Marshall Clark. I'm doing an interview with John Oakes for the Columbia Oral History Project. This is actually our 10th session. Our staff hasn't met with you since 1978, and we're happy through the support of the Times Foundation to be able to conclude this interview.

Mr. Oakes, I wanted to tell you that looking through the previous interviews, I think that we now interview a little differently than we did in 1961 when your interview was begun. We really typically interview people now much more about their early life, their family, the influences that they've had in their family and their personal life to some extent, to get a richer texture between the way in which you were raised, all the subjective influences on your life, and what actually you did with your career. So if you would grant me the privilege, I'd like to ask you a few questions along these lines.

Of course.

Of course, when we have discussed your various roles at the New York Times in particular, it wasn't really explicitly mentioned that you have a family relationship with the family who owns the New York Times, the Sulzbergers. I would like for you to cast back a little bit and talk about your father and your mother and their relationship with the