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Sulzbergers and with Mr. Ochs and how you first perceived that relationship as a child, how that shaped you, the relationship between Mr. Ochs and your father. Just start wherever you would like about that and I'll ask you some follow up questions.

Certainly. Well, to start at the beginning, my mother, whom you've just asked about --

And could you state the names for the record?

Oh, yes. Bertie Gans Ochs died April 30, 1913, a week after I was born, and of course that made a big difference in my life. My father, George W. [Washington] Ochs, and later George W. Ochs Oakes, was a very brilliant, dynamic person who was a man of deeply held convictions and a very close associate of his older brother, Adolph [Simon] Ochs. My father was professionally associated with Adolph Ochs more or less throughout his life.

Their father Julius and mother [Bertha Levy] were both born in Germany, in 1826 and 1833 respectively. Both emigrated to the United States. My grandfather, Julius Ochs, emigrated to the United States in 1845, after a seven-week voyage on a sailing vessel from Bremen. He walked to Bremen from Fürth. There is a wonderful biography of him written by my father years later [1927], which to anyone who would be interested, I would strongly recommend. Of course, it's never been published commercially.

Julius Ochs as a young man made his way out to the Cincinnati-Kentucky area and was sufficiently a linguist to have taught English, French, and I believe German also, in a girls'