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individuals around the country, criticizing him very severely for this. I heard repercussions from this allegation as I was growing up, and all through our lives, but the fact is that the Jewish part of this had absolutely nothing to do with my father's decision on the change of name.

He was in addition to his various other political feelings, a very strong assimilationist in the sense that he wanted Jews -- German or whatever nationality they were -- but Jews, to become part of the mainstream of American life. In those days there were a great many other German Jews who felt this way, too. A great many.

[END TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE; BEGIN TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO]

We're back on side two. The tape is on.

Well, I'm not quite sure exactly where I was. But I know I was discussing this question of changing one's name to conceal one's Jewishness, which was so far and away, so absolutely foreign to my father's idea, that this is why I want to stress what actually happened.

He was known then as an assimilationist, and today I guess the idea is sometimes derided - - but I still think that there's a great deal of merit in the idea. He was known as an assimilationist -- as was his father, Julius Ochs. My father was an extremely patriotic man and he wanted all foreigners coming into the United States to become part of mainstream American culture, which was of course, English speaking.