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At Collegiate School, which I went into from first grade, in 1918, to last in 1929, as my son did, too, 50 years later. I was surrounded by newspapers -- the idea of newspapers and newspaper atmosphere in my whole growing up career, naturally. My father died in '31 when I was 18. But prior to that and of course, subsequently to that, too, my family were all involved in newspapers. My cousin Julius [Ochs] Adler who was the apple of the family's eye, Adolph Ochs's sister Ada [Ochs Adler]'s son -- his nephew -- was not only a great World War One hero -- I mean that literally -- but came into the Times, and of course everyone in the family expected him to be Adolph Ochs's successor. In fact, Julius had lived with Adolph Ochs, with his uncle and aunt before World War One -- before the United States got into World War One -- in New York. He'd grown up in Chattanooga. And he was marked as the successor, and I think Adolph secretly, or maybe not so secretly, hoped that Julius and Iphigene -- Adolph's one and only daughter -- would marry -- maybe this is all stuff that other people have told you about.

No.

But anyway, I think that was the general family expectation, even though they were first cousins. They were very close. They were very good friends, very close. I think the general expectation in the family was that the patriarch's daughter would marry his nephew. I'm sure it was the hope of various members of the family. Remember I was too young to be involved in all this at the time, and I'm only speaking about stuff that I've heard about later. In any case, Arthur [Hays] Sulzberger came along, a dashing young man and friend of Julius's.