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him up there, and his very delightful wife, “Aunt Effie” [Iphigenia Miriam Wise] But I didn't have what I would call an intimate relationship with any other members of the family, except possibly my first cousin, Julius Adler, who was twenty years older than I was, at least, and my other first-cousin, Iphigene Sulzberger, both of whom lived in New York and who were extremely devoted to my aunt, to Auntie, and were really quite often at our house. Julius Adler was particularly close, I think it's fair to say. After my father died, when I was eighteen, Julius was not only executor of the estate but really almost became in loco parentis with me, particularly, and to some degree my older brother. He was a person whom we not only liked but admired enormously. He was sort of the hero of the whole family. He had been a great World War I hero. He was the general manager of the Times. But he was an extremely fine, upright, sort of golden boy type of young man. As he was growing up, he was absolutely adored by everybody in the family. He was very much of a role model for people like my brother and myself. He was very much more conservative, as it developed, in political views, than I was. I guess my father was more conservative than I was also.

Well, this was one of the questions I actually had for you. I wouldn't want to characterize how you are, because I think you're able to look at many positions and see value in many different positions. But I think the general impression of your work, over the years, has been that you are far less conservative, at least in how you describe the other members of your family. Maybe the word radical wouldn't apply -- in the sense that we know that word -- but you certainly have great respect among people who are progressive. I was wondering if Nannie Ochs had some role in that. Was she politically different?

I would say that no member of my family was what one could call -- Well, certainly, no member was radical. I would say they varied in degrees from politically conservative -- By the