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John B. OakesJohn B. Oakes
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Oakes:

He was Sunday editor.

Q:

That's what I thought.

Oakes:

He had been a really very distinguished reporter and God knows what else. He had a long career at the Times. He had, I believe, at one time left the Times to work on a magazine, but then he had come back. But he certainly was one of the bright lights of the Times as far as reportorial work was concerned. But he had absolutely no experience in this field of editorial writing.

But then, when it dawned on me, when Punch in fact said to me that he wanted to make this announcement very soon -- well, no. At first he said, “Just think about this.” This was a very informal conversation, that first conversation. [RINGING PHONE] I'm sorry, I --

[TAPE INTERRUPTION]

Oakes:

Well, I was particularly startled by this definitive announcement by Punch that the decision had been made because actually, a rumor had been brought to me some weeks earlier that another Times executive was being picked by the publisher to be my successor.

Q:

Who was that?

Oakes:

Seymour Topping. A rumor had been brought to me by someone that the publisher had -- and even -- and this is, I guess, important in the history that I'm trying to recall -- and even the rumor that a clean sweep of the editorial department was about to be made by the





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