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Oh, I missed -- I didn't quite know what you were referring to. I sure was opposed to nuclear testing on environmental grounds, I guess almost from the beginning of nuclear testing. I can't pinpoint that. I can't tell you when I began to put those two things together. But it seems to me they would have come together -- When you were asking about environment before and Kennedy versus Johnson, I was thinking entirely in terms of -- not about the nuclear question at all -- I was thinking entirely in terms of protecting the American environmental scene. But when you bring in such matters as nuclear and its bad effect, bad effect on the environment and its connection with environmental protection, I can't honestly tell you. But I would think probably during the same period, probably in the '50s, probably in the '50s, and certainly by the '60s, sure. I can't pinpoint it.

Sure, understandably. How were other newspapers covering conservation and the environment?

Now, you're not talking about the nuclear thing now?

No.

Environmental protection.

Environmental protection issues.

Well, not very well. I mean, the short answer to that is there were, there were some columnists, newspaper columnists, who did write primarily about environmental matters. I