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education. I also began to realize that that West Side was a very rundown and a very depraved area and that it did not begin to compare with the Upper East Side of that same general region - the forties, fifties, sixties and seventies where you had the old German trade unionists. The bakeries over on the West Side were not organized. The bakeries on the East Side were organized and the difference was perfectly extraordinary. The bakers' union was a German union. They didn't let many other people into it. So when these Irish, Italians and Poles began to have bakeries over on the West Side, they paid no attention to them.

That, of course, made a great impression on me. Within a few months I went down to Greenwich House. There were a great many people interested in trade unionism milling around. I then discovered the East Side and the trade unions - the bakers' unions, the brewery workers' union, which were always, by the way, industrial unions. They were born that way and were different from the craft unions of the building trades.

After I got to Greenwich House I really ran into for the first time the successful organization of women's trade unions, what I had seen Gertrude Barnum try to do in Chicago. She and some others had accomplished to some extent the same thing in New York. There were women garment workers,