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it. They've got to listen to him because he's a member of the party too. But you've had your say inside the party. You've got a big element that are for you. They see it's a good program. They can listen to it. They're converted to it. They'll go forward with it. They'll stick with you and they won't let this other man rule the roost just because he's got a lot of money. They've got a lot of votes and he needs them just as much as they need him.”

He pointed out the Huyler Candy Factory situation to me as a case in point. “They never got away with it, did they? They thought they had it fixed, but they didn't get away with it. That never happens if you have a good, well-organized party, if you're in it. But you need to be in it. Good people need to be in the party, not outside looking in. They don't have any influence at all if they're outside looking in. If they're inside, doing their full duty by the party, voting, getting out the vote, helping with the campaigns, and making what they know available to everybody, then they have some influence. Then they can have influence on the party programs. Then the party takes up a good and wise program. They've always got to keep their ear to the people.”

I said, “Well, yes, I can see that if you have influence. But suppose you don't have any influence. Suppose you're in