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him very well. I don't think the Governor knew him at all at that time, although it may be that he did.

Bruere consulted Hopkins a great deal because he was full of ideas. He was imaginative. From Bruere's point of view he was rational. He could talk about the subject without being fantastic and going to extremes. He was practical. I knew that Hopkins was consulted a good deal by Bruere and probably by me too, but not more than I would have consulted a great many other social workers for their ideas. But he was a comfort to Bruere because he had a way of putting things in a practical way.

I'm sure that he went with Bruere, me, and one or two others to see the Governor once or twice during the process of this study in 1930 or so. The reasons for going up to see the Governor at that time were funny as I think of it now, considering what Roosevelt's reputation is. They were part of my project to educate the Governor who didn't know much. He honestly didn't. How would he know? Who would have educated him? Louis Howe, his closest adviser, knew lots about politics, but he didn't know anything about manufacturing. He didn't know anything about industry. He didn't know anything about economics and he wasn't interested in all this.