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In social gatherings it was the same thing. Everybody else would be saying “Madam Secretary” to you, as they would be saying “Mr. Secretary” to Mr. Ickes. If you wanted to spoof him a little, you would say, “Well, Mr. Secretary, I see you've got many friends here tonight,” or something of that sort. Then he would pull a “Madam Secretary” on me and that was supposed to be punch for punch, equally distasteful. Ordinarily we addressed each other as Miss Perkins and Mr. Ickes, and as Mr. Roper and Miss Perkins. I think Mr. Swanson was always very ceremonious in his appellations. Mr. Hull always called me Miss Perkins. I don't mean to say that in a public meeting where we were both present, or a conference at which there were thirty people present, as there often were in a conference at the State Department about something or other, if he had asked me what I thought, he wouldn't have said, “Madam Secretary, have you given this any thought?” just as I would say, “Mr. Secretary, I would like to suggest....” But then he was in an official capacity, and so was I. We were at an official undertaking.

Only a few close friends and blood relations call me by my first name - a very few. There are not very many. I can be just as good and intimate friends with someone whom I call “Miss” or “Mister” as I can with people whom I call by their more or less accidential Christian names. I can't