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There was a lot of talk back and forth, but the principal arguments that I remember hearing were the economic arguments - that it was essential to the revival of world trade that the United States and Russia trade. Again I think that Amtorg was trading in this country under special licenses. I think they traded all through the Hoover and Coolidge periods. I don't remember when Amtorg was established, but certainly it was a big and thriving trading corporation. So it was well known that there was a big market in Russia for American goods.

There were a great many manufacturers and exporters who were dealing through Amtorg. Ralph Flanders, now Senator Flanders, made at least one or two trips to Russia with Amtrog officials. He told me about them. He's a machine tool manufacturer and he had large orders. He had a branch office, or at least some men, trading over there. Some of his people stayed in Russia in order to get them and get them exact, because I remember his saying that you could never depend upon the Russians to give you the exact measurements and descriptions of the tools they wanted. It was better, therefore, to keep American-trained machine tool experts on the spot to review the needs they thought they had and to transmit them to his company in such a way that the orders could be filled correctly and usefully.

I remember that he told me that he had come to the