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to do all this apparently.

I learned, I think from Richberg, where this Tugwell-Johnson group met. I'm sure it was Tugwell to whom I telephoned to say that I was coming over and that the President had told me to. I told him that I proposed to meet with them at their next meeting, and when was it? Well, it was that afternoon or the next afternoon. He said, “I don't think you'll find it very interesting.”

I said, “I'm not coming for interest. The President wishes to know what's going on and what you're thinking about, and I will come over.”

He said, “Right now we're in the midst of a very delicate, detailed thinking-out.”

I said, “That'll be all right. I won't disturb the thinking. I'll just sit in the meeting and see what I can learn.”

I can't recall whether they met in the old State Department building or the old Treasury building, but I think it was the old State. It was up in the upper floors - way up where the roof is mansard and comes down in that funny mansard way, with the windows cut into the mansard. It was a very hot period. There was a big table in the room. A considerable number of people were around the table.