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with me. I often bring him into the conversation for the sake of knowing how a person I'm not very well acquainted with will react to it. If I'm trying to find out about a person whom I just am getting to know, I find out something about them that way - at least if they're educated enough to know anything about Oliver Cromwell, who he was and what he was, which I bet a lot of people aren't.

Of course, Oliver Cromwell is taught in military academies, because I take it he was a very considerable tactician, or strategist, whichever it is. I always forget which is strategy and which is tactics, but he was a considerable fellow in that sphere. They have to study his plans of battle.

At any rate, Johnson abhorred him as a personality. He had great admiration for General U.S. Grant. General Grant was a great military man. He always used to defend Grant and say, “Grant was a perfectly honest man. You all cringe when Grant's name is mentioned and say how terrible he was, but actually Grant was a perfectly honest man. He just didn't know anything about government and politics. So when he got to be President they could pull the wool over his eyes. So a lot of dishonest man got in and operated under him, but he was an honest man and a good man.”

I don't know that he admired Grant for his honesty, but he defended him against the general impression that he