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He would sit on the platform, hot and red-faced, with the secretary bringing him a glass of water every little while under doctor's orders. He really enjoyed that part of it. A great many personal things enter into this picture around this time. By December and before he was really drinking heavily. He was always erratic, but I don't think he was drinking much in that summer of '33 - at least not so that it was openly known or that any of us who were close to him observed it as a serious matter.

Later when I talked to Baruch, who had told me that Johnson was only the Number 3 man and was not fit to be the head of the NRA, later when it became obvious that Hugh was drinking heavily, I said to Baruch, “Did you know this about him when you talked to me?”

He said, “Well, yes, Hugh has always had too much to drink from time to time, but from time to time he sobers off. He was in one of the sobering-off periods then and I didn't like to hit a man then. Maybe he was going to straighten out forever. I didn't like to tell you he was a drunkard.”

I said, “Well, I really think it would have been more effective if you had told me that, than if you had told me he was your Number 3 man, which you did, but it was too late anyhow.”

Baruch knew about his drinking. Baruch had always