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complete mystery to me. I don't think he had too much part in all this New York business. The trade unionists that I talked to always seemed to think of him as a cantankerous and arrogant intellectual who felt himself so superior to everybody else, as that intellectual type often does, particularly if they aren't very intellectual, but just a little. They then feel very superior. But I have no idea of him really, and couldn't judge him fully.

I did hear a great deal about Lovestone. I never saw Lovestone, but you heard the name all the time. These things were going on in the mid and late twenties. When the crash came in '29, there was a period of very wild talk and wild thinking in all sorts of circles. The views of these extremists began to be listened to more interestedly, whereas earlier they would have just been brushed off as tiresome. In the first two years of the depression people were so shaken that they listened with more interest to anybody's talk, no matter how wild it was, or how unfounded it seemed. They at least listened to try to understand what it was and to appraise it.

By that time there was a group called Communists. There was a group swarming around New York in one capacity