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Hillman undoubtedly felt and believed that he had great influence. He cooperated with the local garment workers and the local CIO members in Chicago to fill the galleries, to do some cheering. When they had decided to back Henry Wallace, they cheered a good deal from the galleries. I don't know to this day whether Hillman and the others decided to back Henry Wallace before they learned from the public press and from the rumors in the corridors that the President had indicated he wanted him. I don't think they did. I don't think they lifted a finger for Henry Wallace until they knew it was okay. Then they began to be very vociferous for Henry Wallace. Hillman was telling everybody how fine he was.

Dubinsky was around at that convention. Dubinsky was then in the CIO. The International Ladies Garment Workers had a big organization in Chicago.

Hillman was buzzing a good many people in that informal way that you do at a convention and showing himself every now and then in the galleries right back of the platform. I don't remember seeing him on the platform at any time, but he may have been. I just don't happen to have that picture in my mind. He may have come to the platform. It would certainly not have been exceptional if he had.