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group of people that I knew Churchill. I won't say that I knew him in the way in which you say you have a friend, but I had met him socially more than once in small groups so that the manner of man was clear. From that time on I had always sort of followed him. I had seen him in the meantime, between the wars, socially. Although the Gallipoli expedition was so disastrous it didn't seem to have alienated such friends of his as remained. They still were his friends and thought it was right. To this day those that are left will tell you that if Winnie had been backed up he would have won at Gallipoli. Gallipoli was the way to do it and he was right.

At any rate, I once said to Roosevelt, I think, “Churchill is this kind of a fellow. You want to be careful. He runs ahead of himself, or at least he used to.” I had observed many years later that he was so sure of himself that he would insist upon doing the thing that he thought was a good thing to do. He was a little bit vain. He thought people were old fuddy-duds if they didn't agree with him. I said this to Roosevelt I think when Churchill first came to power, when he became a factor in European life. I had said this in an offhand way. I said, “He's pig headed in has own way. He's often right and brilliant, but....”

At one time Roosevelt was talking about the future in Cabinet meeting. It was several months before Argentia. He turned to me suddenly and said, “Frances, you know Churchill pretty well don't you?”