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I was on practically everything, and it nearly wore me out going to meetings that were utterly profitless, or so they seemed to me.

The thing that Byrnes was the head of - I was definitely on that. That was the one where they brought in, you know, Jim Patton and the other Agriculture man, Ed O'Neal. Now, who did they have for labor people? Because I had such a dreadful time to get them to go. They wouldn't turn up and I'd have to call them up. I mean, they'd scream to be appointed, but -

Was Hillman on this?

No, Hillman was busily engaged in work of his own, you know. No, these were - who was the A.F.L. fellow? It was William Green and Phillip Murray, that's who it was. They would always be sending substitutes. It was their custom, you know--to send a substitute to everything.

I stood it for a while, and finally I talked to both of them and said, “I don't think you can send substitutes. You ought not to do it.”

I also braced up Byrnes about that, and said, “You ought not to let them. You ought not to let a substitute in here. I won't send a substitute. I don't think it's proper to go way down the line to find somebody to come to this