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The problem was, you see, that the Chinese to whom we were giving so much were not fighting up to scratch. They weren't accomplishing what we had anticipated they would accomplish in fighting the Japanese. And of course, you know, material was being flown over the Hump, and men were endangering themselves all the time in there. Who was the man who organized the Flying Tigers? Clair Chennault. There were reports from him, and there were great back-bitings among different groups. It was perfectly obvious that there were divisions among the Chinese, and that Americans were playing first into one hand and then the other. Not all Americans proceeded in the same way.

So that I was very astonished when Hurley went out. I couldn't imagine what in the world. I thought to myself, “Well, it's probably some political deal. He has to be noted. That's buying him off from some political plan he's got.”

It proved to be otherwise. Apparently that wasn't what he went for. And I never have known whether his observations were valid, and informed, or whether they were just ignorant and pulled out of the air. I don't know what qualifications he had for understanding the Chinese.

Do you think that Roosevelt, by '44 or '45, trusted Chiang?

Oh, I don't know. I never heard Chiang's name