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No. He's still around. Here in Washington, sure.

Do you have good feelings about Hershey?

Awfully good feelings. I liked him very much. He's a great friend of mine. He has a sense of humor, that's why they like him--he has a sense of humor, and he sees through things. He sees through bluffs, braggadocio, stupidity, all that kind of thing, and he's able to endure it. He accepts it as a part of the human breed. He's able to endure it, but he doesn't get caught by it. He holds his peace and puts his pressure on at the moment when it would account for something. He's a very good fellow. I like him very much indeed. I think it's largely that unspoiled sense of humor, and a kind of underlying piety and decency and all that.

At any rate, the McNutt appointment, I thought, was obvious, because of the Employment Service, which I saw as doing the whole job anyhow. I thought it had to do it. I would have liked to have seen that separated out from under the control of McNutt, or left under McNutt's control but given independent authority and independent duties.

Well, Harold Smith was very much disturbed by this. I remember that we took a walk one day. We walked all the way around Haines' Point one afternoon, arguing it out, to see if there couldn't something be thought of to prevent Paul McNutt