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Oh, God! Well, she was a beautiful moving picture star, and the idea that she was one of his patients dazzled me. I remember pleading with him: could I carry his bag when he went to see her?

It was Morty Rodgers, too, who introduced me to the fraternity I joined: Pi Lambda Phi. The head of the fraternity was young Oscar Hammerstein. Also, in that fraternity were a couple of people who have been my best friends all my life-- notably a boy named Horace Manges, who today is not only the lawyer for Random House but a half dozen other big publishers, too.

Did you live at home during your college days?

Oh, always. We lived at 157th Street. It was three subway stations down. You got on at 157th Street, off at 116th Street.

Did you take your own money and pay for your college education from the money you'd earned or from your inheritance?

Oh, sure. Pop just about made a living. He was selling for my two uncles--Herbert's two older brothers. They had a hosiery business, which was quite successful, and they loved being recognized by officials. They used to give free sox to the entire police department of New York, so that when they'd ride in their car down Fifth Avenue, they'd be recognized. My