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This is an epilogue interview with Dr. Kenneth B. Clark in his offices in New York City on April 4, 1985. The offices, incidentally, are of Clark, Phipps and Harris, Inc. Dr. Clark is president of his own firm here. Dr. Clark, when you finished reminiscing several years ago, Oral History left open the possibility that you might want to do an epilogue, and, of course, we're delighted that you do. What would you say significant has happened in the civil rights area since you completed your other reminiscing eight, ten years ago?

Stagnation, doldrums, regression, the deterioration of the major civil rights organizations, such as the NAACP, which has become moribund, certainly impotent, and has permitted conservatism, not only the economic conservatism, but the racial regression of the Reagan administration, sort of free reign. It's not really being countered by any organized civil rights movement. To me these are very important negative developments or counter-developments, or forces that are going backwards. I wonder about it. I mean, in the Sixties and the Seventies one had indications of civil rights progress. It was not easy certainly, but there was a certain ferment and persistence. And