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there were problems, but at least I had the impression that these were problems in an ongoing positive struggle. It seems to me to be pretty clear in the last five, six years that the struggle no longer exists, in a way. I mean, there's retreat. The malaise that Carter talked about, that was such a negative political thing for him, has to me become clearly a reality, that is now accepted as conservative realism. And this is particularly clear in the civil rights struggle, where you have the anomaly of the Department of Justice being a very powerful force in this civil rights retreat, in the regression, and that to me is unforgivable. The civil rights division of the Department of Justice is going before the courts asking that remedies for past discrimination not be used.

And yet aren't some of those virtually mandated by the Congressional law?

Yes, but the Reagan Administration Department of Justice is asking that those be repealed.

And then--?

Reinterpreted, you know. Or something. I find it extremely difficult to understand, and what I find also equally disturbing is that there is no organized protest. The NAACP, which ten, fifteen years ago would have been in the forefront of