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spent some time with Buthelezi. And it was clear to me then that it was a matter of time. I came back from South Africa with the feeling that if God had asked me to make a choice between being a white in South Africa or a black in South Africa, oddly enough I would have chosen to be a black in South Africa, because I felt-- I felt personally, and this is a peculiar thing about me, I guess-- I felt more sorry for the whites in South Africa, who were literally mortgaging the future of their children, and who knew it.

The South African whites, whom I talked with and got to know through reading their newspapers, were the most insecure human beings. Insecure in the context of a very high standard of living, but who knew that they were paying a very high price in the future for their advantages.

The blacks, on the other hand, didn't seem to me to have very much of anything to lose. Even the middle-class blacks, the most successful blacks. They knew they didn't have very much to lose.

I've seen this situation in South Africa characterized--

You've been to South Africa?

No. I should say I've reports on this, that it's surreal when you get on location there. Would you consider that an apt characterization?