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to South Africa, by the way. And he traveled with my team, which included a black Professor of Sociology, Hylan Lewis; a white member of my staff, female, Connie Whittaker; Percy and myself.

And we were provided with the opportunity of visiting various parts of South Africa, because the company that invited my client had apparently good contacts with the government. So we were all “honorary whites”, including Percy, and we stayed wherever we wanted.

I was going to ask you about that. Where did you stay? Where could you go?

We could go into all of the first-class hotels. Johannesburg, Cape Town, Durban--

No eyebrows raised?

On the contrary, the white, colored, Asian, and black staff in these hotels seemed very positive. They would call me and tell me on the phone how happy they were, because this was the first time that they had had a mixed group in their hotels. Not the one in Johannesburg, but certainly the one in Durban and Cape Town. [TAPE INTERRUPTION]

Yes, and I spent over two weeks-- our team spent over two weeks traveling. We went to one of the tribal “homelands”. We