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Against other blacks, yes, and who would be much less willing to talk accommodation even with whites, if the white South Africans would talk accommodation, which they're not?

I wouldn't go that far, because I don't think there are many signs that whites would be willing to talk about engaging in any serious talks. So therefore that's not an option for the blacks. I did see, when I was there ten years ago, indications of intra-black conflict of the minority of blacks who were agents of the government, such as the police. And there were indications-- more than indications, I mean there were statements that we were going to have be careful about blacks with whom I talked. There was a sense that there were blacks who were agents of the government. Again, that was part of the reality that I had to take into account.

Did you look into the prison situation down in South Africa while you were there?

No. No. I didn't go to the island.

That's Barr Island, is it?

Yes. I talked with a number of the families of people who were there, but I never visited. I don't think I would have been permitted to, given the nature of my-- the sensitive nature of my visit there, which was to deal with the specific issue of