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South Africa was similar to the civil rights struggle in the United States. That to me is so obviously questionable that I wondered how Andy could have said that. It was a kind of over-simplification that I would not expect from someone as sophisticated as Andy. And by the way, the South African blacks don't buy that either. When I say the South African blacks, those that I talked with, and I didn't see any indications there were others who would buy that. They have their own problems and they're very complicated. The most concrete basis of such a difference, which has psychological, political, social, sociological indications, is the fact that unlike the United States the blacks in South Africa are in the overwhelming majority.

Yes. So it's really a minority with superior arms that is keeping the actual majority under control?

Absolutely. That's right. And that's a major difference.

When you were there, among the black South Africans that you talked to, did you have a sense that an internal bipolarization was occurring, such as I've been reading about? Now there are black activists that are taking more extreme positions and even resorting to more extreme actions?

Against other blacks?