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services component of the budget in terms of the budget as a whole,
and the deficits and whatnot. He doesn't seem, from what I gather
(and I certainly haven't talked with him, and haven't made any
extensive study; I've just read occasional things in the
newspapers)--he seems pretty hard-nosed about the need for a
realistic budget. Which is beyond color.
Let me bring up the name of A. Philip Randolph, in case I have
not with you before. Within the labor movement, A. Philip Randolph
was the only black who--certainly through his lifetime--ever got on
the board of the AFL-CIO. Did you know A. Philip Randolph
Very well. Tremendous respect for him. I had tremendous
respect and admiration for him.
Can you recall, illustratively, any particular issues that you
had discussions about?
I recall Phil Randolph's attempt to bring together Malcolm X,
Roy Wilkins, Whitney Young--because he thought that it was important
that, in spite of differences, these men get to know and understand
each other. I don't think he succeeded, because the more
conservative leaders of the time. Roy and Whitney, did not want to
become tarnished. Randolph was not concerned with matters like that.
He had, to me, a larger vision. We would talk about it in his office
on 125th Street. I recall also, we were riding down to Washington on
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