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difficult for this Mr. Lucas, Detroit, who just in the last two days announced that he was changing his party to the Republicans. He even quoted Jeane Kirkpatrick in saying that the Democratic Party was no longer the party that he had originally identified with. Now, I don't expect Bayard to do anything like that, because I don't know what Bayard's party identification is or has been. But it does seem as if Bayard is more comparable with neo-conservative than I, certainly. Now Bayard has said publicly many times that one of the things that he respects about me is that we can differ as much as we have without it affecting our personal relations. Which is true, because I don't deal with Bayard, or any public people, in terms of personal feelings. I did have a strong personal relationship with Whitney Young. We were friends, almost like brothers. I had a strong personal relationship with Martin Luther King. And not as strong, but a personal relationship with Roy Wilkins--not as strong as my relationship as my relationship was with Whitney, whom I'd known from the time he was the head of the School for Social Work in Atlanta. Then Martin, whom I met very early in the Montgomery boycott situation, and sustained a relationship with him. But I never had that kind of a relationship with Bayard.

How much are you aware of Bayard Rustin's ealier background and affiliations?

Not too much. I know he was with the peace movement, and at one time was with a student socialist group. But I never delved into Bayard's early life.