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saw it on television in France. By the way, my wife and I were never part of that kind of demonstration or organization. I don't recall that we've ever been a part of a demonstration.

But wouldn't, on occasion, some persons that were involved-- leaders--inform you of them, so that you would perhaps discuss it or talk about it, be aware?

Yes. But not as part of the planners or anything of that sort. We knew our limitations. Now, Bayard played a very important coordinating role in that, if I recall correctly.

Well I'm not sure I got the answer to that one, but did you ever hear that President Kennedy tried to discourage that march also?

Yes I did hear that. Not only did he try to discourage it, but none of the Kennedys participated in that. Labor did. Yes, I remember many discussions on the reluctance of the Kennedys to be identified with this before the fact. I understand that after the fact they were more positive.

When you say after the fact, are you saying after the march itself took place, or after it was determined that the march would take place?

After the march took place, and the famous “I have a dream”. Actually that march, at least for a while, had a very positive public