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talked to me about whether I would have accepted an appointment. No politico talked with me.

In fact, I should tell you something that's very interesting. After I'd been on the Board for a few years, I heard the rumor that the minority legislators were disturbed about the fact that I didn't have any communication with them. You know, that I didn't come and talk with them or anything. Well, that was not my view, my role, to talk with political officials. We met with the Governor about once or twice a year. But I was not aware of what the political operations were behind my being elected to the Regents, and therefore, after I was a Regent, I felt quite independent. I had to make no promises to anybody about anything.

Have you every speculated that to whatever extent were these behind-the-scenes maneuverings-- whether they involved Ray Jones and/or others? See, Ray Jones was not quite as strong politically at the time of your appointment as he later became, was he? He was not yet in the City Council. I believe he went in possibly-- was it ‘61 that he went in?

I think so. Well, I wasn't a Regent until ‘65.

Oh, ‘65. Then he was in the City Council by that time. Perhaps he was Chairman of the New York County Democratic Committee, or formerly called Tammany Hall.