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resistance to desegregation-- because actually, prior to the Brown decision and attempts to desegregate, busing was not an issue in America. The overwhelming majority of elementary school children were transported to school by buses. Segregated schools were maintained by buses. Mr. Nixon saw a good issue-- which is, interestingly enough, a Northern racist issue. The busing issue is largely Northern. It's not Southern. The South had become adjusted to transportation of children to schools by buses.

But when the desegregation issue got all fouled up in this non-issue, then the pattern of maintaining an increasing segregation in such northern urban areas as New York and Boston and Philadelphia and what not--

Well, are you saying here-- or are you implying here-- that at least long-distance busing perhaps should not have been instituted solely for the purpose of integrating schools? In both directions.

Well, I don't know what long-distance busing means. I mean, there was no more need for long-distance busing than there was for busing, prior to the racial problem in the schools. For example, in New York State we transport children with public funds to private and parochial schools. No one has ever told me what that distance was. And coming back to the Regents, when that issue of busing was coming before the Regents-- and it was a typical cliche approach to the problem-- I would say to my colleagues,